Most of our problems are not caused by Brussels – Boris Johnson, November 2014

Boris Johnson Nov 2014

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UK & the EU – They need us more than we need them, a lesson from history.

SECEXIT –  A LESSON FROM HISTORY

‘They need us more than we need them – they need to continue selling their manufactures to us. Of course we can negotiate a deal.’

Where might we have heard these bright confident words before?  Let’s go back 150 years to ‘Secexit’  which is what the leaders of the Confederate States of America might have called their attempt to escape from a political union which, they felt encroached on their sovereignty.  That attempt, as we all know from the historical record as well as books such as ‘Gone with the Wind,’ began amidst great optimism and ended in dismal failure.

Yet what is remarkable is that the sentiments voiced by those leaders were very similar to those being voiced today by those who want Britain to secede from the European Union.  The confident assertions of the secessionists then are being repeated today by those who are sure that once Britain exits the European Union, the world will be falling over itself to beat a path to our door.

In 1861 the Southern States of North America were at the time the world’s greatest producer of raw cotton and Britain was the world’s greatest processor of that cotton.  Britain was also the world’s greatest industrial power.  Britain needed to export its manufactured goods (as did the nascent manufacturing industries of the northern American states)

The Southern States were therefore confident that Britain would put overwhelming pressure on the Government of President Lincoln to let the Southern States secede in order to guarantee the flow of cotton would continue.  The secessionists were confident that this strategy, known as ‘King Cotton,’ would trump everything.

Indeed so confident were they that they didn’t bother to do any elementary homework (another characteristic perhaps of the Brexiteers today)!  They didn’t ask Britain about its attitude to secession, nor to the prolongation of slavery which secession would have meant; nor even about the glut of cotton sitting at that time in Lancashire warehouses.

When war broke out Britain did not intervene as the South had hoped and as their enthusiasts had predicted.  Instead Britain took a slump in its cotton and textile industry on the chin rather than be seen to acting against the interests of those in the North who wanted to keep the Union together and to abolish slavery.  The North blockaded southern ports, the southern economy was ruined and the rebellion collapsed.

Madly and brashly the leaders of the Southern States had tried to reach for an illusory and brave new world without doing their homework and without heeding the warnings. It is a pity there weren’t a few more scaremongers about.

Of course today the remaining countries of the European Union will not face Britain with a ‘hot war’ – but making life uncomfortable for us in terms of trade is far from impossible. To say so isn’t scaremongering.  It is merely considering the possible downsides of Brexit, something any prudent business needs to do.  History is there to be learnt from.

With many thanks to Peter Sain ley Berry a member of the Say Yes 2 Europe – Remain in the EU alliance.

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Nigel Lawson and UK/Irish sovereignty -Sauce for the Goose but not for the Gander?

The major line of argument for the “out” side in the EU referendum campaign is its supposed defence of sovereignty, of how the UK should withdraw from the EU to be able to take decisions unilaterally.

Whether it’s Nigel Farage wanting to withdraw from the Single Market, Michael Gove feeling constrained as a minister or MEP David Coburn wanting stronger toasters, the message is clear: the UK will be all right on its own, thank you very much.

The Prime Minister has been eloquent and forthright in his defence of engaging with our European neighbours within the framework of the EU: we take decisions together to gain influence and become decision-makers and not decision-takers. He concedes their sovereignty point, but describes it as an illusion of sovereignty; it’s better to have power and influence.

Yet the “outers” stick to their guns, some even admitting there will be economic disadvantages after Brexit, this risk being supposedly outweighed by the benefits of regaining sovereignty: we’ll be poorer and more at risk, but we will have decided to do so ourselves. Others argue there will be no risks as “they need us more than we need them”: They will have to continue trading with us, give us unfettered access to their markets, let us travel there with let or hindrance. And why? Because we’re the fifth largest economy in the world, and are important?

This attitude is a legacy of empire, a feeling that the UK can have what it wants come what may, and others must fall into line. By far the worst example of this mind-set was this week put on display by Lord Lawson, the octogenarian leader of VoteLeave, who hoped that after Brexit the Irish Republic would realise its mistake and rejoin the United Kingdom.

Not only is the “noble lord” a double hypocrite for taking advantage of his rights as an EU citizen by living in France, while wanting to deny the same right to others and for railing against unelected lawmakers in Brussels while being an unelected lawmaker himself in the House of Lords, he scored a hat-trick of hypocrisy by denying the Irish the same rights as a sovereign nation he reclaims for the UK.

He surely knows how fraught the common history between the UK and Ireland is, how centuries of British rule stoked the fires of separatism until a rupture was won and maintained through division, violence and loss of blood, violence which continued for decades after independence in 1921.

Even if the trade and other links between the two kindred countries remain stronger than relations between other nations, it is telling that Ireland is the only English-speaking country bar the USA that is not a member of the Commonwealth and that official state visits of the respective heads of state have only become possible in the past decade. This was all seemingly lost on Lord Lawson.

The effects of Brexit on the future of the UK have been discussed more in terms of the Scottish question, with Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish First Minister suggesting a leave vote would trigger a second referendum on Scottish independence.

The effects on Northern Ireland have also been discussed: the present land border (with no border markings) could become a real border. The extensive cross-border trade and commuter flows on the island of Ireland would be endangered, the divisions with Northern Ireland may start to become more pronounced.

But the effects on Anglo-Irish relations have been less in focus. Ireland is one of UK’s largest trading partners, the UK importing more Irish goods than it does Japanese goods, and exporting more than it does to Spain or Italy. It trades more with Ireland than with China. This trade could be subject to tariffs. The Common Travel Area between the UK and Ireland, the mini Schengen between the two countries, would certainly end.

Would the two countries still grant each other’s citizens full voting rights? Over 300,000 UK citizens in Ireland and 400,000 Irish citizens in the UK could be disenfranchised overnight, not counting those in Northern Ireland who have no UK citizenship. Why give up strong ties for the illusion of sovereignty?

Despite the controversies of the Euro bailout in Ireland, their commitment to the EU remains solid. Why not learn from the Irish on their understanding of sovereignty in a European context?

The UK deserves a future where it secures peace and prosperity through dialogue and trade, being at the table together with like-minded partners and respecting them as such, so much more positive than being petulant and harping back to a bygone era.

For those UK citizens in Ireland and those Irish citizens in the UK who can vote in the referendum there can be only one positive choice on 23 June: Vote to Remain in the EU!

Thanks for Joey Davey Ovey, one of the Say Yes 2 Europe – Remain in the EU alliance.

 

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It is incumbent on the Brexiters to paint a positive & fact based picture of a post-Brexit UK

My reasons (or some of them) for wanting to REMAIN (in no particular order) -:

1. Membership of a Customs Union removing all tariffs and trade barriers as well as expensive border paperwork within a marketplace of over 500 million people.

2. The Single Market concept and the level playing field it tries to create although it needs completion and to do that we have to be in to influence it.

3. Freedom of Movement enjoyed by 2.3 million Brits and a few less EU migrants living and working in the UK where all the evidence shows they overwhelmingly contribute. Also allowing easier and cheaper holidays

4. Workers’ Rights protected across the Union in a way they would never be in the UK alone

5. Environmental protections across the board

6. Support of Science including massive investment and EU funded collaborative schemes in the UK

7. Support for Academia including educational exchanges through schemes like Erasmus

8. Democratic controls – controversial in some quarters as I know only too well but the EU does have the appropriate checks and balances and we are hardly democratic ourselves with a government holding a majority but elected by less than 50% of the votes cast AND with an unelected 2nd chamber

9. The ability to make better deals for trade around the world as part of the larger trading block

10. The fact that the EU and its predecessor organisations has contributed positively to peace in Europe. Some will say that is NATO but they would be wrong as that organisation is only concerned with external defense.

11. The ability to trade with the rest of the world as well as the EU with a common set of agreed rules.

12. Leaving is far more complex than the quitters think http://www.theguardian.com/…/brexit-would-affect-lives-of-m…

13. Leaving the EU could lead to the break-up of the UK

14. The peace process in Northern Ireland is at risk if controls have to be reintroduced on the Irish Land Boundary and even more so if the Common Travel Area is abrogated.

15. Leaving the EU is a gamble as nobody knows what will happen but extracting ourselves and negotiating new trade arrangements will take years (some experts say 10 or more) during which time our economy could implode. It is incumbent on the Brexiters to paint a positive and fact based picture of a post-Brexit UK – they wont of course as they cannot.

There is more (a lot more!) but let’s see how you get on with those.

Stuart Wilson, a member of the Say Yes 2 Europe – Remain in the EU.

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Rebutting the usual EUmyths and my own reasons for wanting the UK to Remain in the EU.

I was asked to respond to a post in an expatriates group to a post made by a member containing many of the usual EUmyths.

As well as correcting the EUmyths in the post I also gave my reasons for wanting the UK to Remain in the EU.

Here is what I posted.

The EU accounts have been signed off every year since 2007.

The Council is formed from elected national leaders and the Parliament by directly elected MEPs.

The President of the Commision J-C Juncker is proposed by the Council and approved by the Parliament.

The Heads of the Directorates are proposed by the President of the Commission and approved by the Parliament.

The civil servants who work for the Commission number less than 35,000.

John is also trying to fudge the issue with when he says “Give a thought for the home country the way it is being taken over and the Brave people in the Armed Forces that fought to keep Britain Great,”. What has that to do with the EU?

The Great in Great Britain is not referring to might, influence or power it is Great in the geographic term as in Greater Manchester/London etc.

I want to stay in the EU because I believe in the EU both as an Ideal and as a Reality. It isn’t perfect it does need reform and the UK does need to play a leading part in the development of the EU.

I also want to make sure that my children, grand-children and future generations have the same benefits, advantages (and the responsibilities that come with them) I have had from being part of a Diverse but United Europe.

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EU Referendum – Project “Get Real” not Project “Fear”

We must beware of the Leavers labelling our warnings as ‘Project Fear’ which implies (to their troops) that we are only scare-mongering.

I like to call these warnings, ‘Project Get Real.’ I have watched last evening Patrick Minford debating with Peter Hain on The Wales Report on BBC Wales.  Minford, a macroeconomics professor in Cardiff, got away with all sorts of assertions, the nub of his argument being we can be free-trade Britain and anyone who says differently is scare-mongering.

These people need to be pinned down and made to spell out their policies. It takes two to make a trade relationship (or any other relationship). They cannot be allowed to assume that our free trade proposals will be signed off by the other party, or that we would not have to abide by EU rules if we wanted to sell there.  It is not a question whether we want to trade freely.  We are not going to put a tariff on French wine and cheese or German cars; but when we want to sell them our goods and services then we shall run up against the EU’s external tariff barrier.

Minford also kept saying how strong the UK economy was and how weak was the rest of the EU. With its high debt, budget and trade deficits, Britain’s economy is actually not in a good position at all! A real case of the pot calling the kettle black.

I keep coming back to the thought that if leaving the EU is such a good idea, why isn’t Germany leading the way? Germany contributes far more to the EU budget and it exports far more.  Germany could survive outside the EU much better than us, so why do the Germans want to stay?  Possibly because they actually do rather well out of the EU.

Another of his arguments was that we were constantly outvoted in the EU’s decision making.

Really?  It is Britain that is pressing for a unified European capital market and the completion of the digital services market, both of which would benefit the UK greatly. Just as with the Single Market itself, far from being outvoted, it is actually the UK that is leading the way.

Finally I have just read that David Owen (who left the Labour Party over Europe to become one of the SDP’s ‘Gang of Four’) is now backing Brexit.  This isn’t surprising but I wonder whether anyone listens to him any more?  An aged loose cannon if ever there was one.  Even his former acolytes have deserted him.  The Brexit leaders collectively are acquiring a slightly desperate,  tinge to whom it would be madness to entrust your future.

With thanks to Peter Sain ley Berry, a member of one of the “Say Yes 2 Europe – Remain in the EU” alliance’s groups.

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Why I’ll be voting to stay

Peter Marcus

Over the past week I’ve had the chance to think about the upcoming referendum. My dilemma wasn’t which way to cast my vote in June. It will surprise no one that I will need no persuasion to vote to retain Britain’s membership of the European Union.

What I didn’t always understand was why I was so sure that Europe is the way forward.

At first I thought that I could be out of a loyalty to Denmark, a loyalty which meant I wanted nothing less than to see a separation between my two countries. But it isn’t. My loyalty lies first and foremost with the people I love.

Perhaps, I then thought, it comes from an unexplainable hated of Nigel Farage and George Galloway and a natural disagreement with them. Of course, that hatred could be explained very easily – just look at them. But my certainty that we…

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Why I believe the UK is far better off inside the EU working for reform than leaving it

Source: Leon Duveen in his Bassetlaw for Europe blog

I am unapologetically pro-Europe & pro-EU and spend far too much time in Facebook and elsewhere defending why I believe the UK is far better of inside the EU working for reform & improvements than leaving it as the anti-EU brigade would like.  Recently I have been challenged by one of this brigade to say why I am so pro-EU & to stand up and show why I believe what I do.  So, rather than try to do it in a short comment on Facebook, I felt it better that I write a fuller explanation.

The reasons why I am so pro-Europe can be broken down into 3 areas.

First of all, I feel European.  This is no surprise given that not only I am married to a Dutch woman, my father was Dutch & I only need to go back 2 or 3 generations on my mother’s side to see that they came from Eastern Europe.  Even though I was born in London, my ancestry & upbringing make me far more European than is the norm for many other British people.   In addition I lived in Israel for 10 years and this further exposed me to different cultures and far less a small-minded Britisher.

Secondly, there is the historic reason that the last 70 years has seen the longest period of peace in Europe.  Except for the violent breakup of Yugoslavia, there has been no major military conflict in Europe.  Looking back through history, you quickly see that this is the longest period of peace that the continent has ever known.  Even the revolutions against dictatorships (in Greece, Spain & Portugal) have been peaceful as has the breakup of Czechoslovakia.  The only significant outbreaks of violence such as the troubles in Northern Ireland & the campaign for Basque independence have been limited to terror activities and brought to a non-violent conclusion.  While not claiming this is all due to the EU, there is no doubt that because of the greater economic co-operation between countries makes armed conflict between them less likely.  Just look at the current spat between the UK & Spain over Gibraltar, it would be unthinkable that either side would go to war over the issue.

Finally, let’s look why membership of the EU benefits both British business & British workers.

Recent estimates from the CBI put the worth of being in the EU at £3000 per family in the UK[1] and the Director of the CBI added “Contrary to popular myth, the UK is influential in the corridors of Brussels and will still be as long as we play our cards right.”  Other business leaders agree but are worried that is we leave the UK some of the leading multinational players who have invested deeply in manufacturing in this country may think again about more investment here or, even worse, pull out.[2]  Altogether the estimate number of jobs in the UK that are dependent on being in the EU is around 3 million.  While no-one is trying to pretend that all these jobs would disappear overnight if the UK pulled out of the EU, it is still a large number of jobs & workers livelihoods to replace so those advocating leaving the EU need to have some firm ideas on how to do this not just relying on the platitudes and hopes that have characterised what they have said up to now.

It is not just big business that benefits from EU membership.  Workers get increased protection under a number of EU directives such as the Working Hours Directive[3].  Indeed this is one of the reasons some on the right want us out, they claim the cost of these rights are too much for businesses[4].  Again do we really want to throw away these hard won rights?  Consumers also benefit from our membership of the EU.  If you have been to Spain or Italy on holiday in the last couple of years, you may have noticed that the cost of using you mobile phone has fallen considerably.  This is not because the phone companies are feeling generous but EU directives[5]forcing them to lower the costs of phoning between countries in the EU.  Another example is how the EU has forced Microsoft to stop bundling up its other products with Windows Operating Systems[6].  It is because the EU is so large and the single market so big that it can enforce such rules on even the biggest multi-national companies, do we really want to throw this away?

I have written elsewhere on the cost of being in the EU & why UKIP are being misleading on thinking we would not have similar costs to carry on with the EU if we left  (see UKIP claims are just so much hot air) so I won’t repeat that here.  In the end we have a choice between being at the table helping to make the decisions and influencing the direction the EU is taking or sitting on the outside and having to apply all those decisions with no say in how they were derived.  Make no mistake;  American PCs are built to EU standards if they want to sell them here, Brazilian cars are designed to EU safety standards  to be sold in Europe, Switzerland is having to change its banking standards to let its banks trade in the EU[7]. The question should be, not can we afford to stay in the EU but how can we afford even to suggest we might leave and throw away our influence?

To conclude, I have tried to show why I am pro-Europe & pro-EU.  I have shown why we would be made to leave the EU and given references to my statements (something I have noticed the UKIP & other anti EU people often fail to do).  I realise it is easy to throw out some simple anti-EU statements, especially if you don’t feel the need to back them up with facts, and that, as with any big organisation, there are many faults in the EU.  To me it would be madness to walk away from being one of the major influences in the largest single market in the world on the basis of some unsupported pipe dreams from UKIP or others.  We need not just to be in the EU but to take the lead in reforms to make it better, to try to bridge the democratic deficit that makes Brussels seem remote, to make the EU work even better for its citizens.

This is why I am in, and why the UK needs to be in.

[1] http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/eu-worth-3000-a-year-to-every-uk-family-cbi-1-3172088
[2] http://www.thesundaytimes.co.uk/sto/business/Economy/article1344195.ece
[3] https://osha.europa.eu/en/legislation/directiveshttp://www.out-law.com/page-2556,
[4] http://thirdway.eu/2013/02/12/union-attacks-anti-worker-ukip/
[5] http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24056369
[6] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_competition_case
[7] http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/09/us-swiss-tax-idUSBRE9980IW20131009

 

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Private Member’s Bill on Overseas Voting

Very important news from Brian Cave, a long term promoter of the Votes for Life campaign, via David Rosemont, a member of one of the SY2E aliance’s groups:

Friends,

I have just received the following information from a private contact.
Please see the Overseas Voters Bill, just published, and due for second reading in the House of Commons the day after tomorrow 26 February 2016, at

http://services.parliament.uk/b…/2015-16/overseasvoters.html

This Bill is private members bill not obviously connected with the proposed Government Votes-For-Life Bill which has not been tabled.

Mr Chope MP and others introduced this Bill on 7th July last.

It is most significant that the second reading has appeared at this time. It is very short and would remove the 15 year limit on voting making votes for us all in the Referendum possible.

To support this Bill please go to this page and sign the Parliamentary petition supporting the implementation of the Votes for Life legislation.

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It isn’t perfect but it isn’t broken, why is Leaving BETTER than Staying and changing the EU

There is a danger and I have fallen into it. So many people who post online for “OUT” are very extreme, angry, factually incorrect, xenophobic and tbh often a bit stupid.

I don’t believe these people will ever be convertible, but some of us tend to react in a mirror image way to them. I think this is slightly off putting to the waverers.

Although visionary stuff is great, the reality is Europe has been disappointing to us Europhiles on things from refugees, to Greece to tax evasion to the illiberal deomcracy here in Budapest. Very often, the bigger and more dynamic vision doesn’t connect with the average voter

The reality is that if we leave the EU, the economy will not collapse and we will still go on holiday in Europe and cooperate with Europe. The reality is that we don’t know what will happen, but money speaks and we will probably get some kind of deal or another. The argument on this really is “the better the devil you know”….. there are many uncertainties and a cocktail of farage, johnson, galloway and the ulster unionists ever agreeing on this is nil.

I believe we should be fighting hard against the “democratic deficit” argument. As a lifelong liberal, it is funny to observe how many right wing people are suddenly into “self determination”. The reality is the EU is democratic, it just feels distant.

We should also be presenting Europe as our friends. So much of the argument is that ” cooperation and teamwork” trump (excuse the pun) going alone…… we cannot tackle Putin or whoever, the Environment, the global economy, terrorrism, international crime , cyber crime, refugees as a single nation.

Note also that mainstream business is deeply anti Exit. Only some in the city of london are Brexit. Their motives are, I suspect, are to turn the UK into Singapore.

Sensible trade unions are also very Pro EU. Those against don’t seem to be awake to the fact we live in a globalised world.

Practical tangible reasons for staying and less exaggeration are needed.

With thanks to Rupert Slade, a member in the SY2E – Remain in the EU alliance of groups, for letting us publish this.

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